127097-top-reasons-youre-excited-for-f2p-and-top-reasons-why-you-arent
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- Yeah, we're definitely going to receive people that either aren't capable of clearing the harder content or aren't willing to commit the time and effort to clear the harder content, but will still want access to the rewards from such. So, when that happens, you have a few options. Nerf existing content (and supplement with harder content elsewhere?) Deal with people selling carries to each other. ( Do I even have to mention what happened to ranked PvP? )This problematic social phenomenon has verymuch poisoned communities in games like TERA and FFXIV. I don't want it in WildStar. By 'Deal with' I do not mean tolerate from the sidelines, I mean systematic removal. Maybe now is a good time to make raid carries a bannable offense. | |} ---- Honestly my biggest fear for this game has always been nerfing things the wrong way. The big difference between wildstar and other mmos is that it's hard everywhere. At any level with any playstyle I can find difficult content. I dont have to wait to be max level, I dont have to wait to be raiding. I can do vet dungeons or heck even vet adventures when you do stupid big pulls and have to be on my toes. I can level and fear danger, attempt to solo +2 or +3 mobs and feel satisfied when I finally snag that kill. With an influx of players comes people that might not understand wildstars difficulty scale, and might ask for nerfs. F2P is because it cannot support itself on a P2P model, so will they nerf to appeal to the mass amount of free players we'll be getting? Hopefully not. That's wildstars niche imo. | |} ---- Only one thing to do, really - be the community that teaches these new players how to get good, instead of the community telling them to stop whining and go play runescape. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- As I understand it, the only way to get loyalty points is to buy boxes, CREDD, or sig sub time for money. You could theoretically still sell the CREDD for plat and retain the loyalty points for buying it. | |} ---- ---- ---- That just really sounds like you prefer paying more for less. | |} ---- | |} ---- ---- How much money does RIOT have to spend to only slightly curb the toxicity of their community? | |} ---- How many times will someone bring up a different genre and play experiences to try and make a facetious statement in a discourse on MMOs transitioning to F2P? An unfathomable amount of times. How many times will be people say things like 'omg F2P games have the worst people' when subscription games have the same terrible people? Last time I checked, creating barriers to things often creates inflated sense of importance which translates to pretty poor behavior. You can't toss a rock without hitting a jerk in a fine dining restaurant, but it's a lot harder in a soup kitchen. | |} ---- ---- How does the genre make any difference whatsoever in behaviour? Even if it did, PVP battlegrounds and a game of LOL are very, very similar. I'm sure LOL has lots of classy people who are chill and just want to play in peace, like any F2P game, but that hasn't really helped LOL avoid a culture of toxic behaviour with the public at large, and consequently RIOT is having to pay big money employing psychologists and developing systems and CS to combat a never ending turnover of unvetted players. I don't actually think the situation in Wildstar will be that bad, but anecdotally speaking (since data is almost impossible to find), F2P games have been the worse off compared to games with buy ins. With a box purchase, there's at least the tiny incentive to behave or you'll lose the value of your purchase, and everyone knows that everyone else has that same incentive. | |} ---- ---- Good job not addressing the main point. But hey, when you're wrong you're wrong...so better to not touch it in detail. Also, if you think the genre of game has no bearing on the people playing or the behavior present, I'm not sure you're adequately experienced to have a proper discourse on the subject you raised. Remember the last time we had those 12 year old Call of Duty kids playing Lord of the Rings online and causing a ruckus calling people all sorts of racially charged and sexually explicit names? Oh wait..no. It's almost as if they aren't attracted to that style of RPG. Remember all of those hardcore LOL players that were on Evindra roleplaying their hearts out, but then reverted to the wrong game personality in a fit of bipolar outbursts? No. It's almost like different people like different things and inherently act different. It's almost like making widespread claims of causality without realizing that everything is a possibility simply because humans on the whole have great capability for being dbags just happens. But hey, carry on you shining star. Keep repping those F2P myths. :rolleyes: Edit: inb4 'omg you totally contradicted yourself' - trends, observe them, objectively process, then instead of regurgitating what uninformed people say, formulate an original observation. | |} ---- Things that have happened are not myths. It's the entire reason I avoid instanced battleground leaderboard PVP altogether in every MMO because those are exactly the types of people who frequent them. F2P just guarantees more of it. Not regurgitating any uniformed opinions. I'm stating my observations based on actual experiences. | |} ---- Data or gtfo. Keep on avoiding and resorting to generalization. If you want your head in the sand, there's nothing I can do to help you. | |} ---- Law of large numbers. If such people already exist in a paid environment, removing the pay wall results in an influx of more such people. Not all bad mind you, but more is more, regardless of the relative percentage (which is the only debatable point on which there is no data). With a smaller pool of players it's easier to ignore the worst offenders, or at least know what you're getting into when you see someone you recognize. With F2P you just get a constant turnover of new people to ignore. | |} ---- ---- ---- this. most world bosses will create massive lags in the entire zone and ruin gameplay for a lot of people. i mean, i'm sure Carbine thought about it... but i thought they did before too, and then i saw Scorchwing... lets just say that i am hopeful but not totally convinced in their capabilities at this point. and a ruined f2p launch would mean the real death of the game. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I gotta say, the BAM nerfs really gutted me (I left before that got implemented). It was quite a while after f2p that they did that. But... I went back to level to 65... I'm a priest and I would take forever to kill some mobs if it wasn't for my bf playing his warrior and killing them for me. The new zones feel appropriately dangerous even for a tanky DPS like warror. I was assisting a poor archer getting mobbed down by some lion-thingies. It reminded me of the gruesome trial that level 50-55 zone was back in the day and it felt good. Though I still hate solo forced story content that makes me DPS bosses and mobs. I'm a healer, come on. Let's get real here. (I was wearing top priest equips that were actually better than most of the rewards from the new 60-65 content; not what you'd expect a fresh player to be in) Anyway, TERA seems in a much better shape now. They probably could have stayed p2p if it wasn't for the lawsuit that put them behind 2 years in content. *sigh* ----- To the topic at hand: Reasons I'm excited: (as they come to mind, not order of importance) - More reasons for Carbine to release FLUFF because le fluff makes them money now - especially costumes! - More players around during leveling, hopefully running pre-vet dungeons/adventures - More players in queues for veteran content, in fact - best part is more nooblets in queues. I prefer to learn with others who are new than end up in a party with 4 vets that might take me to a quick glorious victory while I learn nothing. All because I did not rush rush rush to 50 in the first week. - Can keep commitment to this game casual if I want to. This makes it more likely for this game to eventually replace my #1 MMO (which only has issues like not having trinity and not being English). I can choose to throw money at the game for pretty things and feel like I got my money's worth rather than pay 3 months of sub and only logging in a weekend (like I did last year). - More likely to convince the boyfriend to give it a fair shake as he is somewhat allergic to p2p (though we have both been subscribers to our main MMO without lapse despite not having to cause f2p lol; I can't figure out the attitude but it is what it is) - Better costumes, better mounts, better pets - they gotta make people pay and I hope that means the costumes will be more outlandish (it's a costume!), the pets more interesting (that floating cat was an interesting start), and... More hoverboards with sparkles! :P I'm kidding about that one... or am I? Reasons why it might be bad: - It might become all fluff, no content - though personally I don't see it surviving like that, this ain't no Candycrush fluff game - Game WILL cost more than as p2p because I love my fluff a lot and now there will be no limit --- Actually I think that's BS. I could have bought CREDD before in order to get powerful gear and certain mounts/costumes/housing/pets quicker. But maybe I will be spending more because they'll release stuff I want desperately enough. Their costumes/mounts/housing did not entice me enough to dish out CREDD for them, to be honest. | |} ---- ---- Think literally. xD | |} ---- ---- You should have put this at the top, because pretty much everything you just said feels like a "troll" meant to get people angry. | |} ---- Not trying to make anyone angry, and I did put a disclaimer that it would tick off certain kinds of people. xD I'm just kind of venting about F2P and talking about why I hate it so much, and how it and DLC are poisoning the game industry as a whole. I said "troll" because, usually, dissenting opinions are considered trolling, because the internet doesn't allow freedom of thought, you know. All that fun stuff. :3 (Was kind of a joke too, since most people think I'm a troll) | |} ---- ---- Well, there are two definitions of "casual" in my mind. The first definition is what you would consider yourself, probably; someone who doesn't live for video games, but sits down and plays them every so often for fun, and doesn't have a whole lot of time to dedicate to them (or doesn't want to). These are the people who actually enjoy playing games, but aren't in any kind of rush to get to the end, and would rather play for fun than to beat the hardest setting and all that. I have no issue at all with that kind of casual, that's what we have difficulty settings for and games that support gameplay that isn't 3+ hours. The second definition of "casual," (the more common type of person I see, imo) is someone who is rather lazy and spoiled by modern society. They expect things to be handed to them, and can't be bothered to spend any real time or effort to do things, even though they most definitely could. They would rather throw money at things to take a shortcut than to do things the old-fashioned way and earn what you get. They don't care much for the game itself, they just want to play it to say they did, and to brag about "beating" it to all their friends. They throw a fit when things don't go their way, and twist arms until they get what they want. See, at least in my mind, F2P, DLC and all that caters more towards the second definition of casual. The first definition is mostly gamers who started back in the 80s and 90s on the old NES, Atari and so on (though that doesn't mean younger people or new gamers can't fit into the first definition). The second definition could be those same people who grew sour, but are mostly newer gamers who were spoiled by how society is these days, and expect gaming to be just as pandering. | |} ---- couldnt agree more. games are not targeted at people who play them for the long term, they are targeted at whales. eventually something will give. and a dev company will make a good game for the passion and not for the money. | |} ---- So a whale can't be a long-term player? Geez, you people and your one-sided viewpoints, where everyone fits into the nice little box of negativity you've crafted for them. | |} ---- A whale most definitely can be a long-term player, but they're often game hoppers who join a game, throw down a ton of money only to get bored, and then move on to the next pond and throw more money. Every company out there wants a lot of whales in their backyard, and they do what they can to retain them, but it doesn't always work. The F2P crowd is very fickle and picky. | |} ---- It's literally video games. It is not real life. It is LITERALLY VIDEO GAMES. Aka entertainment, aka, free time, aka fun. I can't even begin on the amount of cynicism, pretentiousness, and judgement going on in this post. DLC has existed since the early 2000s, if even before then. Shame on companies for making what people want to spend money on. This sort of attitude needs to die. It's literally a game. No one has any right to tell other people how to enjoy them or that how other people enjoy playing their games is wrong or right. | |} ---- Fixed this for you. :angry: | |} ---- Good lord, you sound like some octogenarian ranting about the good old days, or one of the 6,000,000 articles written now for the sole purpose of shitting of millennials. There were people like this 20 years ago, they just didn't *cupcake*ing play video games. Video games just became accessible to more people. Does it suck, yea somewhat. But it also means that there is a bigger pool of development money generally. Why do you think the indie game development scene exploded? More money all around, more titles being made. Unfortunately MMO's tend to be the development money-sink equivalent of Hollywood summer blockbusters, so you have to build a model to generate ROI or no-one will back your game. As for DLC, its been around since your touted golden era of video games in the form of expansion packs (sonic and knuckles, command and conquer, tribunal). I will agree that some companies have gotten particularly "odious" about it (*cough* EA), but as content distribution models evolved and distribution costs fell, this was the natural course of the business. | |} ---- ---- Eww the casuals have taken over the board. :P | |} ---- I can agree with some of the message in there, though I would tone down on the harshness. I think the MMO genre is just a lost cause at this point. At least I have Bloodborne here right now, and Witcher 3 if I get tired of that. | |} ---- Just to poke a hole there, but who cares about a bigger pool of development money if they don't use it to make a game you like? MMOs didn't used to be Hollywood summer blockbusters, not even close, not until WoW. There will not be another MMO with WoW's level of success. Not only that, but budget bloat is symptomatic of the entire AAA industry. | |} ---- There's a subtext as well. | |} ---- The thing is, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that there is a certain type of entitled gamer but I'll be damned if that word gets pegged only on casual players. Hardcore players can be incredibly entitled, selfish, stuck-up, and rude. Hardcore players are the ones that give games terrible reputations for toxic and volatile communities both online and in real life such as with fighting games. A lot of casual players literally do not care and just want to go into a game and enjoy it. A lot of hardcore players care about competition, about being better than others, and then rubbing it in. The point is, how a person plays does not dictate how they act. Has no one taken consideration into the fact that MAYBE so many MMOs suck as F2P is because they are not done right? Because they create random box generated items, because they're overpried, because they're pay-to-win. MMOs, by the very nature of needing a lot of people to function need to cater to a lot of people and a lot of different types of players. Obviously if Wildstar was the epitome of amazing gaming, it would not be in the hole right now. Obviously, if Wildstar's payment model was fantastic, it would not be in the hole right now. Wildstar has a great opportunity to be one of the first Western MMOs to create a balanced F2P model. But no, instead of discussing how that can be done, casuals are the bane of gaming as a whole. The lack of mature conversation since the announcement is incredibly devastating. If Wildstar becoming popular and inclusive is the worst thing to have ever happened to it then I'll gladly go down with the ship. | |} ---- Instanced leaderboard PVP is why I don't participate in any MMO I play, because of your first paragraph (and also because there is no GD point to meaningless PVP like that). I also agree with your second paragraph, but at this point I fully expect to see boom boxes make a return on the cash shop, and eventually the game will fall prey to P2W because of whales who can't deal with high difficulty content. | |} ---- I hear this and second it e n t i r e l y. | |} ---- I get that, it's why I don't PvP in MMOs. That's also a huge reason of why I don't participate in fighting game competitions in real life. Boom boxes I could see as an individual items but not the main focus of the shop. The types of RIGs I'm talking about are the main focus. For example, where a game will release a costume but it's only in one color and you only get to keep it for a 30 day period then no more costume. They will have the same exact costume but in a better color and permanent and with armor bonuses but it will be in a caspule that you have to gamble with and each capsule is like $7. And that's the standard for every type of item in the shop. In my opinion, it only gets to the point where they have to cater to whales when the type of model I just mentioned is implemented. If Wildstar creates a fair cash shop, people will want to give them money. I wonder, why does not one ever talk about the success of Team Fortress 2? They have a GREAT F2P model that a lot of people like and they keep up the content and lore updates. Valve is literally rolling in money because of it and the players love to play the game. Plus competitive and casual players can both just get in and enjoy. | |} ---- Oh man, don't even get me started on equipment/costume/dye rentals, I really don't want to have nightmares. The difference with TF2 is that cosmetic items mean nothing in a team shooter. In an MMO, they are part of the core experience of an RPG and it becomes a pay wall for a lot of people for whom actually doing PVE or PVP is not the reason they play. | |} ---- They are literally the worst. But it shows greatly that the MMOs that don't have this type of model not only do much better but last longer. There was an Arena Battle game I used to play that ended up closing down :/ Loved it but it had this same timed costume model and suffered despite the great potential for customization. People are already hesitant to spend money on digital items but temporary digital items? Never gonna happen. On TF2, I disagree to some extent because like with MOBAs, they are useless but people love art and they love customizing. The more choice a game gives a player, the more they will want to spend money. And I can completely understand this perspective, totally. When I first started playing MMOs, I was a teenager and if i wanted to buy something for myself, I had to save lunch money. Suffice to say, I chose to eat haha. At the same time however, Wildstar would be prime for this sort of thing. I can instantly see costumes for Halloween, Christmas, Easter, Summer swimsuits. The team said that they are implementing a way to collect the currency in game. On top of that, it could work where someone buys the costume and then sells it in the AH for gold or plat. It would work just like the CREDD but with vanity instead. Someone would be willing to spend the money for the in game currency so accessibility would still be there for people who don't want to spend the cash. | |} ---- First, I told you not to read my post if you can't handle people exposing your F2P and DLC scams. DLC, in its current state, has not been around since the 90s. Not even close. Right now, DLC is features that are pulled out before the game is even done, and then released later on as a "new" thing. Before, DLC would be something added onto the game AFTER the development phase was done. Shame on companies for lying to people and conning them into paying more money for what they should already have. Yes, I can't say F2P is a bad thing, but you're free to go about making me out to be a monster, and that DLC and F2P is the Godsend of gaming, and that gaming as an industry could never have survived without enabling people to be lazy little asses who throw money at everything and couldn't be bothered to lift a finger and earn what they want. You know, all those articles are written for a reason. Modern society is just, in a word, awful. Many people like I've described play video games, but the VAST majority is the second definition of a casual - just a swarm of locusts, eating and killing the crops that are video games wherever they go - forcing developers to go F2P or go out of business. The indie thing has been booming because a lot of gamers are getting fed up with the wallet-humping parasites that inhabit most of the big-name companies, and they set out to make a game true to their vision, though they usually have to go and become just like the people they never wanted to be, because "gamers" won't play anything that takes effort to be good at anymore. Read above about DLC. Expansions were content made and developed after the original game, not content pulled from the game and released later for more money. Yes, Wildstar will likely make a lot more money than they do now, but will it be the same Wildstar we have now? When the focus shifts to milking people for every cent they have, then it's a totally new game at that point. Retention and quality of content just aren't as important as making more stuff for people to throw money at. Pride has nothing to do with it. Imagine you had a hobby you loved, and it was wonderful for many years, and then all of a sudden a swarm of people who never so much as touched your hobby suddenly want in -- but only if they change this, remove that, and change all this. So now, your hobby that you loved is some abomination of a thing that's hardly a shell of its former self. That thing you loved so much was forcefully ripped away from you by the power of *cupcake*ing money. That's why so many people get upset about F2P, DLC and all the horrible side effects that had on gaming. You get so upset, but you didn't read my entire post, or the followup post. Go figure. And again, you clearly didn't read the entire post - you just skimmed through and pulled out keywords to get mad at. I'd suggest going back and reading the whole thing. F2P is never a good payment model. If I pay for a game (well, I guess I won't be anymore), I want access to everything in it, not just the barebones. F2P and DLC takes that away, and forces you to pay for extra things that, really, should be in the game from the start. | |} ---- I did read your entire post. Out loud actually word by word to my friends in the room to make sure it wasn't only me. It wasn't. I got mad because as mentioned before, your post was cynical, pretentious, and judgemental. Nothing more, nothing less. There are companies that do methods like that but they are the ones that should be scolded, not your entire umbrella that encompasses all of modern gaming. What would you consider The Sims expansions then? Early 2000s as I mentioned. Funny how someone who lives in modern age can rant and rave about it being awful in your short lifetime throughout the entire span of humanity. I for one greatly enjoy things like the Internet and my smartphone, and not believing the world is flat. | |} ---- The problem is the wildstar we have now is still pretty bad ??? I would not be playing if I did not have friends playing along with me. The game is stupidly hard, this 'hardcore' theme doesn't fit the stylized look, and you keep proving just how bad the player base is, or at least some of the most vocal ones on the forums. I don't know how the reddit or anything else is but right now, right here, there's so much vile I can barely stand it. The F2P players will be a fresh change of pace and a welcomed one at that. They'll flood bitter angry people out of the system. Yes but you forget that money got you there? You're paying for this game, and obviously it's NOT making enough money to keep going. You aren't supporting your 'hobby' enough to keep it going. And it wasn't just made for you, you feel so entitled to this version of Wildstar you're running it into the ground. It's beyond fear, it's just blind hatred at this point. It's not even being ripped away from you, if anything it's make it easier for you to play and support what you love. If you have a particularly hard month on money you don't have to worry about not being able to keep your account. Like, I honestly don't know why you feel so strong on keeping people out. Because yes, I did read your entire post, and yes, I did read your following post. I read your disclaimer that allows you to suddenly be 'non-offensive' even when posting in a public forum about something that's coming, and something you can't *cupcake*ing stop. People are excited for this, people are legitimately excited for something good to happen to the game so it won't shut the *cupcake* down. I want to keep playing wildstar, and when I have money, I want to support the things I like about wildstar. | |} ---- ---- If they don't allow people to accrue loyalty points for buying things in the cash shop, they're bigger fools than I ever would have guessed. Everyone spending money on the game is supporting the game directly, and the cash isn't better simply because someone spent it on 30 days of signature service instead of on a Flashy Vanity Widget. | |} ---- I cannot be optimistic about this. I have been in too many games that put all their cosmethic power on selling schoolgirl uniforms and tuxedos. | |} ---- You may get them for buying cash shop stuff, but those are the only methods they mentioned in the livestream. | |} ---- Cosmetic items means ALOT to alot of players regardless of the game they play. What keeps ppl playing APB..a third person shooter?...Costumization is a big part of it. Ppl want to look cool no matter what they do and no matter what game they play. IF they get the option to do so! The fantastic thing about F2P games IS that you can buy your "coolness" for real money. Then you play the game for gear stats and beating challenging content. I dont mind sexy outfits or bouncing boobs either in any game (I can play a game only because it has p**n in it tbo)...but I'm pretty vulgar by nature, but I understand that many ppl are not..(like my mother is not and I still love her:)) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- First step of that came in today's patch by getting the game ready for the cash shop....all mounts can now be used by level 3 and up | |} ---- This is a brilliant move:) | |} ---- I'm sure there are people who like to look cool, but there are also people like me for whom cosmetic items mean absolutely nothing in MOBAs, Planetside 2, or any non-RPG, and you couldn't pay to me buy them. I honestly don't know why people even try APB in the first place, let alone what keeps them playing. | |} ---- ---- I specifically left that unattributed because there are a broad number of people who feel that way. They are not freeloaders. They are content in the form of "other people to play with" and "other people to show off my expensive shiny to". Both of those are critical functions. The latter keeps the whales happy and the former keeps everybody else happy. They are entitled to whatever Carbine sees fit to grant them access do. I have rarely seen any of them with a false sense of entitlement. Does this allow people to drop in and out? Of course! That's one of the attractions of the model. I have friends who like to spend a week here and there. If they have fun they buy a few shinies. If they have a lot of fun then they go and pay for a month or two. Even if they drift they tend to wander back. And spend regardless of sub status. | |} ---- ---- Hey now, I have adopted "Freebots" as the politically-correct and non-insulting nomenclature. Freebots are friendly and willing to help! Freeloaders are lazy and disrespectful! | |} ---- That line was a bit vague in the FAQ/KB article I read. Was it clarified? We're already at the 2k limit (1000 outside + 1000 inside). None of the new world order for subs looked like an increase. Some things could be expanded via cash shop purchases (stacking) but didn't seem like it for housing. Honestly if I could split the pool how I want (interior isn't going to get close to 1k) I'd be overjoyed. | |} ---- I don't see the problem? | |} ---- I'm pretty sure they won't care what word people use if the concept around it boils down to "I don't want these euphemism here fouling up my perfect game by being in it". | |} ---- Kind of like being called a "whale" because I have money to spend, huh? Or a "white knight" ... or a "fanboy" ... or a "dirty casual?" | |} ---- ---- Kind of, except that I don't see people regularly advocating for whales, white knights, or fanboys to get out of their game because they're so fundamentally undeserving of being allowed into the game. | |} ---- Any of those become a problem when their money becomes the driving factor behind the type of content the game receives in the future to an unfair degree. I liked the game just fine when it launched, and it hasn't really fallen out of my liking up until now, but I can already see the gleam in people's eyes about how stuff will get nerfed and generally changes I don't want to see happen that will make me not like the game in the end. When the mob speaks (cumulatively with more money than I can assemble), the game stops being what I bought, and is ultimately the reason there is strife in multiplayer game communities. That is not usually a problem in single player games. I get what I pay for, and it stays that way forever. | |} ---- Well, that didn't take long to prove you wrong, did it, Yas. HAHAHAHA ;) I was told the same thing yesterday, twice. That "my kind of player" was ruining the entire experience and I don't deserve to play this game, because if I do, Carbine will cater to my wallet and ignore the #hardcores. | |} ---- ---- Apparently not. Apparently, according to some people, whales can't be #hardcore and whales can't be long-term players, either. We are, according to some, a swarm of locusts out to devour and ruin every new game with our filthy spending habits and obvious inability to "earn" what we want. (I guess the fact that I go to work every day to "earn" my money is lost on those people, but whatever helps them get through the day, right?) | |} ---- ---- It's not that you don't deserve to play, it's when your monetary influence starts to negatively impact other people's enjoyment of the game that the problem arises. Again, that's not strictly speaking, your fault. It's a question of greed winning over the principles and vision of the design team. Historical evidence simply indicates that this is more likely to happen than not, so what is a person to do when they can't compete? In a sub or B2P game, devs don't have the temptation of unfairly favoring whales, while in F2P and cash shop games it's a very big temptation. | |} ---- :lol: Yeah, I stand corrected! Sorry, Tex. There's always few, aren't there... :rolleyes: Maybe it would be more accurate to say that more people advocate for pushing out the freeloaders and the filthy casuals while fewer advocate for pushing out the fanboys, white knights, and whales? ;) | |} ---- ^^^ 100% agree! The labels are always baseless, without evidence, and relying purely on an individual's own personal bias. People are more complex than that. Not everything is black and white, especially in regards to people. I straight up don't get it. It's like, when you go into a game already being a judgmental ass, what do you expect? How can you possibly have a good time? When you go in already expecting everyone to be a troll, everyone to be bad, how can you even begin to have fun? I can't imagine carrying around that toxic mentality in something as unserious as video games, especially not in life. Exhausting. It seriously irritates me as someone who does art. Art is my passion but I want to make money doing it too. I don't see why video games are excluded from that. I don't see why someone can't be passionate about what they do AND want to be insanely financially successful. One doesn't always have to exist without the other. All the passion in the world will not help any project if it is not successful. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I feel used. I want my input redacted as it was provided under false pretenses. | |} ---- Unless it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age where entire mechanics and class balances can be changed a few months AFTER the game came out. Or even endings are up for grabs for changes. :D | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- As a community, the Vets are going to seriously have to. Remember, the difficulty barrier of Wildstar didn't fly when people had spent $60 on the core game buy-in a year ago. Having just started Wildstar, I'm thrilled that NCSoft, given the past couple of quarterly reports, gave Carbine another shot with the game. But in all honesty, NCSoft doesn't mess around as a company. City of Heroes was making more than Wildstar (with, I imagine, less development cost by ratio) when it was shuttered for no longer being profitable enough. Carbine is going to absolutely need many of the F2P new player samples to feel the game is a mainstay enough for them to warrant investing in either a subscription or the cash shop. The way I see it, from a mass appeal standpoint with those samples, I think the difficulty barrier is going to be a real barrier, just like it was with the P2P demographic. These are guys coming in and experiencing that barrier with no financial investment beforehand. Which makes it even easier to uninstall and move on. So, unless the Vet community truly steps up, I can see where Carbine is going to be left with little choice but to lower that barrier, or face NCSoft's final decision. To be honest, I'm pretty much already expecting difficulty nerfs by Drop 7 or Drop 8, unless the F2P influx plays out differently than I'm guessing it will. At this point, Carbine likely doesn't have much room left to maneuver, and is basically going to have to chase the money even more so than usually expected. | |} ---- ---- ---- PVP is going to have get more tlc its getting there but still needs a bit more. A big chunk of the f2p community is going to be pvpers.. | |} ---- sylqt, not calling you a whale, but if you are, the video game term, not a female degatory term, I dont want to offend ;), want to sell some stuff from the store? | |} ---- Did you REALLY need to necro a thread from JUNE just to say that? No. No, you did not. | |} ---- ----